The verdict is due very soon but Gazzetta dello Sport reported this morning that the sanctions will be:
Relegated to Serie B and docked points for 06/07 - Juventus, (docked 20 points) Fiorentina (docked 7 points) and Lazio (docked 10 points)
AC Milan to remain in Serie A but excluded from the Champions League and docked 10 to 15 points for 06/07 season.
I will not be surprised if these are the sanctions or something very close. With a 20 point deduction it is the equivalent of demotion to Serie C.
The ramifications are extensive and the impact long term.
The sale of players will take a number of Italian players to other leagues. Traditionally Italian players do not play in other leagues. Vialli, Zola and Di Matteo (Chelsea) are probably the highest profile Italian players to make a living in another league. Di Vaio, Viera, Corradi are either border line or past their best.
Loss of revenue to the clubs and Serie A in general. I saw one estimate - from a reliable and credible journalist - that the loss to Juventus over a three year period (before they could return to Europe ) of close to $500M. That also takes into consideration the required firesale of players e.g. paid around $20M for Patrick Vieira but will be lucky to get $5M tomorrow.
The over supply of quality players will further depress the transfer market and impacts all teams in Europe. Manchester United is rumoured to want $15M for a 30 year-old Ruud Van Nistelrooy - will they get that when you might be able to pick up a 26 yesar old David Trezeguet for maybe half of that.
The quality of Italian teams in the Champions League will be less which means less money flowing to Serie A and an opportunity for other European leagues to fill the vacuum.
I am sure there are more. If you support an Italian team - and particularly one of the four - how do you see it impacting your team. For supporters of other teams how do you think the verdicts will affect your team.
And last but not least will Inter now win Serie A!
Ahh they get what they deserve.. only all four teams need to be relegated. involvement in this is another scar on football and as such should be punished having said that Inter wont win and even if they do it would be a hollow win
If AC Milan is indeed allowed to stay in Serie A, will they keep all their stars?
If they do, I don't see why they wouldn't have a shot at Serie A, although you'd have to say Inter would be the favorites starting out with a 10-point lead over Milan.
Apologies for the off-topic post but I was just sent this and was wondering (1) if this was true and (2) if true, why doesn't someone do something about it:
From ZZ's interview on Tele France (TF1): … contre le vice-président du Sé »nat italien. Sur TF1, ZInédine Zidane s'en est pris au vice président du Sénat italien, le dirigeant de la Ligue du Nord, parti de droite populiste au ton souvent xénophobe, Roberto Calderoli qui avait déclaré que l'Italie avait battu « une équipe de noirs d'islamistes et de communistes. »
Translation:
On TF Zidane took to task the vice president of the Italian Senate, the head of the Northern League, a right wing populist party often with a xenophobic tone, Roberto Calderoli who had declared that Italy had beaten "a team of blacks, of islamists and communists".
The only question that intrigues me, is "Where's Vieira going?"
This all relates to Man Utd, of course. As AC Milan are not relegated, the logical move of Gattuso to Man U does not appear completely clear. As Ferguson was once a great admirer of Vieira, and tried to bid for him, would he think of going down that road?
And more importantly, would Vieira want to maybe stick it to Wenger, or is their relationship on decent ground?
I think Vieira has proved with his recent WC form that his Serie A form was not a true representation of how good he can be; I imagine it was acclimating to a new team, league, and country (as well as tactics).
Davard - Gattuso has been widely quoted as saying that he will stay with Milan no matter what. Vieira would be a short term solution for Ferguson but he looks like he is committing to Carrick and that will cost a pile of dough - although I can't undertand why. I think Carrick is a great player but $25M - seems like too much to me particularly in this summers transfer market. No matter what you hear from the United PR machine money is a problem. The Glazers remain highly leveraged and Fergie will have to raise money through transfers before he can sign anyone beyond Carrick and perhaps one other relatively low cost player.
Salaries also come into the equation - Vieira is not cheap.
Last edited by BobbyMcMahon on July 14th at 11:01 AM.
I'm not sure that the Italian teams in the Champions League will be less. After the sentence they will revise the standing from the last season, Inter should get the title and Roma get second place (Champions League). Other teams will move up in the standing and might take part to the preliminary in Champions. We still have time to present the list of teams to UEFA.
Inter has good possibility to win the Serie A but I don't think they will. Why? 1) because I support Roma!! 2) Over the past years Inter had very good players but never managed to win anything (besides Coppa Italia!!). Maybe Serie A will not be as interesting for few seasons, at least for those team's fan.
For the half part of the last season Roma and Milan did better than any other teams. Roma set a record of 11 straight win, playing with subs. Juventus had great start for slowing down at the end, almost getting caught up by Milan.
Honestly I was worried that after the WC title, they would somehow make easier on those 4 teams and the people involved. Instead, prime minister and judges said that there won't be any amnesty. Berlusconi tried to protect his team, because according to him, they are innocent. HE NEVER DOES ANYTHING WRONG!! give me a break!!
Again, they ruined the Serie A, which I'm sure will grow back stronger, and I'm happy as Italian that they are cleaning up.
It's just matter of minutes for the sentence. I'm watching Italian TV and I will keep you posted...
Btw, as you said beside Vialli, Zola and few other italian players, played in other European leagues (PL and La Liga). Although, the rough time Serie A is going through, it has always been one of the most interesting and famous league in Europe. Why would players that make "too many" millions leave to play elsewhere, unless it's for Real Madrid or Chelsea.
After the sentence we will see many players leaving Serie A to play for Real Madrid (Capello wants half Juventus and Italy), Chelsea or ManU. That's about it.
First of all this decision will make next year's Serie B one of the most exciting leagues in Europe. Even if Juve start at -20 they may still manage to get promoted, although facing Fiorentina and Lazio is an added obstacle.
This is great for Milan. I would rather start at -15 and not have Juve and Fiorentina around; no disrespect to Inter and Roma. Milan should still qualify for next years UCL, and maybe still win the league. If Milan start strong it may turn out to be legendary comeback.
Having said all this, we still have to hear the official verdict and the results of the immediate appeals, which will go on through next week.
Milan will also probably get Buffon and Zambrotta out of this, and will be exonerated by the appeals panel next week, and go on to win the treble.
Last edited by Venti_vidi_vici on July 14th at 11:54 AM.
Juventus in B starting at -30 points.
Fiorentina in B starting at -12 points.
Lazio in B starting at -7 points.
Milan in A starting at -15 points for next season. No Champions or UEFA because they were penalized by -44 for the previous season.
Revoked the 2005 title. The 2006 not assigned to anyone.
Juventus in B starting at -30 points.
Fiorentina in B starting at -12 points.
Lazio in B starting at -7 points.
Milan in A starting at -15 points for next season. No Champions or UEFA because they were penalized by -44 for the previous season.
Revoked the 2005 title. The 2006 not assigned to anyone.
I absolutely cannot see how Milan has been found guilty of anything, and I’m positive that Milan will be exonerated next week. A former employee, not a team official, a former employee, called a linesman supervisor to complain about a particular designation and a few bad decisions by the said linesman in a Milan loss to Siena.
If that deserves a 15 point penalty and exclusion from the UCL, then half the teams in Europe should start their league campaign with a negative balance.
Last edited by Venti_vidi_vici on July 14th at 12:18 PM.
they have 6 days to appeal to the Federal Court and it will the second and last for what concerns football justice. The second phase might open from july 20th to july 24th. The 25th is the last day to present the list to UEFA with the teams for the European cups.
Then they can appeal at the TAR for adminstrative justice, which might make all this longer!! However teams that will do this, will be excluded frok UEFA automatically.
I'm pretty satisfied with the sentence. It will be so interesting to see players moving around teams. Now it's good time to make deals!!
So, two seasons in Serie B for Juventus most likely. 30 points is a huge disadvantage to start the season, and I'm sure they'll lose most of their stars.
Do Chievo and Palermo have the resources to go after some of the players from the relegated sides? I would think now would be the time for these clubs to make a bid for a long Champions League run and try to build their clubs.
Juve will be fine? I'm sure that the appeals panel will reduce the 30 point deduction. Milan was sent to Serie B in 1982, and came right back up and was European Champion in three of the next eleven years.
The economics of the game has changed significantly since the 80's and I cannot see Juventus turning their situation around like Milan did back then. Part of that Milan turnaround was Berlusconi buying them and investing a lot of money I think.
You never know Bobby, Roman Abramovich may buy them and see it as an asset... get it for a good price now that all the "Stars" are bailing out and rebuild it then re-sell it and make one hell of a profit.. I mean he has the finances and it could become Chelski and Milanski or Juvenski
ahh and how would you feel being the coaches of the sides now seeing themselves at the top of Serie A and having to face the might of european sides.... Guess the happiness with raising in the standing in Serie A will last a little while
Palermo and Chievo are still very good teams, and can now go shopping, and should both make the group stages. I don't think that Roma and Inter will be overawed in Europe either.
Once Juve is back in Serie A (next year after the appeals board reduces the penalty), I'm sure they will still be able to assemble one of the best teams in Europe. They are still a huge team, in big European city, with a massive fan base - I have to believe that they will be just fine.
Milan were promoted in '83 and Berlusconi took over in '86. This is the 20th anniversary, hence venti vidi vici. Football has changed a lot since then, but nonetheless Juve is one of the most powerful teams in the world.
Last edited by Venti_vidi_vici on July 14th at 1:17 PM.
oh you know i gotta weigh in onb this one. Witht he fire sale that will surely happen because the heros at the clubs suddenly become quivering children if they think that there faces wont appear all over the world, so look for the mass exodus from all teams relagated. Juve may be a huge team right now but financially this is going to hurt big time with gate receits down dramatically and the loss of euro money.
Its gonna take a while for juve and co to get back... penalty point in place or not
I am one depressed Fiorentina fan! Just a few years after the bankruptcy and relegation, back to Serie B again. I have always said that they are the Chgo Cubs of Italian soccer.
Aussie: you cannot be farther from the truth.
Milan involvment in this case was marginal, compared to Juventus.
I bet that, after the appeal, Juve will be relagated (with -15pts ?), whereas Milan will be playing in Serie A as well as Lazio (-5?) and Fiorentina (-9?).
I sort of feel bad for Lazio + Fiorentina, but I'm ecstatic that Juve got walloped. It's the greatest thing that ever happened to Italian soccer.
Juventus are a cancer. It would be best if they were obliterated completely, but that's a dream -- like saying it would be nice if all war + hunger would end.
Everyone knows that Juventus are a hyper-greedy, monopolistic club that nobody with an ounce of self-worth would or could support. Their home attendances are ridiculously low. They're also so crooked, so bereft of honor, that it would literally be difficult to describe in words. Their crimes so outrageous as to a mafia don blush.
Carneade .... it was a joke and stated in that way but you must be kidding, these teams have been found guilty in some form or another of fixing soccer matches whether that be in a large part or just happen to be there whilst it was going on and your saying that its not a bad thing .......... THERE FIXING THE RESULTS OF SOCCER MATCHES.... doesnt matter how good you play your not going to win... This is disgusting to say the least yet you say oh when appealed it will drop to 5 points. Hooray for Italian football
Overall I think this is probably a low spot in Soccer that wont be forgotten for a while... Lets see
1. ZZ and Materazzi incident
2. Match fixing in Italy
3. biggest thing to come out of world cup was diving issues
4.Italian clubs relegated and striped of places in their respective leagues
Aussie: you probably don't know much about this scandal. The 4 team involved are not equally guilty and therefore the punishment should not be the same. There is a difference from stealing an apple and stealing one million, don't you think?
Aussie: you probably don't know much about this scandal. The 4 team involved are not equally guilty and therefore the punishment should not be the same. There is a difference from stealing an apple and stealing one million, don't you think?
@Terry63
I agree that anyone proven to have fixed matches should be punished but did your team get an asskicking from Juve? lose a scudetto to Juve? Lose a champions league to Juve? Death to Juve? I think there are alot of jealous people out there. I am not a Juve fan but I think that justice is being done and as hard as it may be for some people on here to give Italians some credit, the league deserves credit for cleaning it's own house.
Also for the record even if you don't like Juve, there's no denying what a strong soccer team it has and good organization to find great talent inside Italy and also in other countries. The proof is their Champions league success, but anti-Juve fans will argue that their players didn't score those goals.........the referee's put the ball in the net for them LOL
@aussie
just some advice mate, if you don't want a hostile reaction from italians then don't show such an obious anti-italian bias, otherwise it will only be a natural reaction.
4 major teams just got severe penalties (which they deserved) and just because ac Milan was allowed to stay in Serie A but with big disadvantage you accuse this was because of a bribe?? there is where your obivous anti-italian BS is exposed.
Anyways any intelligent person knows that money corrupts, and more money more chance of corruption and it's not just an italian problem. German refs were recently discovered to be fixing matches. I guess all the other leagues are perfectly clean cause nobody's been caught. LOL
Milan may still compete in the UEFA Cup this season, because Empoli which moved from 11th to 6th (now 1 point ahead of Milan after losing 44 points) does not have the UEFA license as of yet. However this may be a mistake by CAF because, I’m sure their intention was to remove Milan from all European competitions.
If you remove the newly relegated teams and deduct 15 points from Milan’s tally, they would have still finished in second place in each of the past 3 seasons. Hopefully, a slight reduction in the penalty points and a strong start could lead to Milan’s most legendary Serie A title ever.
How did LaGazzetta (the Milan newspaper) have prior knowledge of the details of the sentences to be handed down 24 hours in advance, and then Milan manage to find relative leniency. After all, Milan is the only club to have had actual contact with match officials. The appeals panel will most probably reinstate Lazio and Fiorentina to Serie A, or actually increase the penalty for Milan. This is going to be a long fortnight.
Looking at Juve’s list of players, I would argue that they have probably the best collection of players of any team in the world. This could be quite a shopping frenzy, which hopefully will finally alleviate some of the inflation in transfer fees.
If you want to see corruption at it's finest, wait for the results of the investigation into illegal payments to player agents in the EPL. I'm sure that miraculously all the big clubs, Peter Kenyon, Sir Alex and his son, will come out smelling like fresh cut roses.
Last edited by Venti_vidi_vici on July 15th at 7:35 AM.
Venti_vidi_vici: La Gazzetta dello Sport is not the Milan newspaper. It's owned by RCS mediagroup, controlled by the Agnelli family (Juventus).
Also, Milan was not the only team to have contact with match officials. Actually it was Juve, in the person of Moggi to control the refs. Milan was involved because Meani (an employee, not a legal rapresentative) had contacts with the person in charge of the linesman and there was only one game in question, Milan-Chievo as opposed to the so called "Moggi system" through which Juve decided who was going to refree its games.
Emerson, Zambrotta and Cannavaro to Real Madrid this week for 35-40 million euros, to join Capello.
Inter and Man Utd are very interested in Viera and Ibrahimovic, but Juve seems more inclined to sell them abroad, so advantage Sir Alex.
Camoranesi is probably going to Valencia, but Bayern is also interested.
Thuram and Trezeguet are on their way to Barcelona, but the latter may wind up at Lyon.
Buffon is closest to Milan, but will obviously await the verdicts from the appeals court.
Mutu (to Fiorentina!!), Abbiati (back to Milan) and Blasi(also to Fiorentina!!) are all gone already. New signings and/or loan returnees, Bojinov, Miccoli, Iuliano, C.Zanetti and Tudor will hope to not have to report for work at Via Olivero this year.
Nedved was probably going to retire anyway, and doesn’t seem to be looking for a new challenge. I doubt he wants finish his career in Serie B, unlike DelPiero who seemingly is willing to spend the next two seasons in that division.
Good luck to the French (ironically!) duo of general manager Blanc and coach Deschamps in returning this club to where it belongs.
Carneade:
I don't know where you get your information but I have spent all morning reading La Gazzetta dello Sport and Il Corriere dello Sport, which everyone knows are very biased towards Milan and Juve respectively.
Moggi was by far the most involved in influencing referees decisons and assignments but UNFORTUNTELY Milan was the only team to have direct contact with match officials. Of the taped conversations, only one conversation implicates Milan (by Meani) but there is a lot more evidence than the taped phone conversations. Leonardo Meani was the referees representative for AC Milan for several years and knows the rules very well. He resigned a while ago and has received a three and a half year suspension for his involvment. This investigation went on for two years. I'm sure you don't think that vice-president Galliani received a one year suspension just because one of his employees made an inappropriate phone call without his knowledge.
Last edited by Venti_vidi_vici on July 15th at 9:01 AM.
Venti_vidi_vici:
I read the Corriere and la Gazzetta as well, and I've been following this mess from the very beginning.
And from the very beginning it appeared that Juve was the one that was involved the most, with Moggi controlling the refs.
Milan, via Meani, had few phone calls with Puglisi, a linesman, but the only "su####ious" game was Milan-Chievo, in which the linesman Puglisi disallowed a gol from Shevchenko who was not in offside btw. Also, Meani is a Mialn employee, therefore he does not legally represent Milan and that's why Milan was not relagated since Milan was not directly responsible for Meani's actions.
ASROMAGUY and Carneade ...if you happen to read the blog without presuming Bias you woud understand that the sentence i wrote was a thought not an acusation therefore I think it is both of you that have the predjuduce and chip on a shoulder attitude.... at no point in time did i say that Milan had actually made a bribe.. as for the scandal that is ripping Italian football right now... yes i am sure i dont know all the details as i am not part of it.. for that matter i doubt you are either and hence just like the ZZ AND MATERAZZI situation we will Never know all the fact so cant make a good judgement. What i do know is this ... if you are charged with something then more than likely you have commited the offence, whether that is a huge part in it or a small part in it is immaterial ...you were actively trying to fix games and thus should be punished.
I only comment on what has been printed in both the Italians press and the rest of the worlds press.
Venti tend to agree with you .... the english side of things is rampant with insider trading and so on so cant wait to see that one through as well
carneade and asromaguy get ridof the chip on your collective shoulders.. I dont hate Italy just the way they flop like ballerinas is all
listen aussie, for sure it was just a thought, but don't pretend it wasn't biased. heavy punishments were just handed out and you insinuate that again it was by underhanded means that Milan wasn't punished more severely?? This is pure and unabashed prejudice and racial sterotyping (sound familiar?)
So don't come back and whitewash your statement by saying you didn't say "they did" you're just putting a thought out there. It is your thought, based on your prejudice at least take responsibility for your statements here. No chip but if you come out with blanket statements and inuendos without facts it shows YOUR position and you will be called out on it.
Guys-
It is difficult to read these posts and not respond. Our "Aussie" friend has repeatedly been caught uttering his veiled and sometimes not so veiled prejudiced views on anything having to do with Italy. Most recently he has apologized.
Face it "Aussie", many posters still think you sound like a racist and many posters object to your "style". I don't mind at all people that disagree with one's opinions, in fact it's healthy and mandatory in this country, but at least have the courage to stand by your convictions. Also does anyone know of a civilized country that has a judicial system that proclaims, "you are guilty upon indictment"? Certainly not America.
aussie: Being accused and charged with something does not mean that you are necessarily guilty. Actually, you're not guilty unless proven otherwise.
Also, i don't have a chip on my shoulder. I just gave my 2 cents on this topic.
Gentlemen Gentlemen Gentlemen, firstly dont preusme you know what I am thinking because you dont just like i dont know what you think.
I dont hate Italians and for you to think i do just because i have a differing view than your is not just childish but stupid. Thats not saying that i think your stupid because i dont. I love italians people ... as a matter of fact i work for a company that is one of the worlds largest food processing machines and is italian owned but enough of that
again it is not biased or anything else it was just a thought and was truely meant for VVV as he and I have been going back and forward for weeks and I even appoligised to a lot of you.. If that isnt enough then i dont know what is. You must truely have the same beliefs as me to be this insecure about Italy's win that you have to beat up on one person who has a differing opinion than your own ...give it a rest Gentlemen as quite frankly i dont really care if you think differently than me as it would be a pretty sorry world of we all thought the same
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