While the Buccaneers are already working hard to get ready for the next season in OTAs, the talk of the town has centered more about what is going on in the front office. B.J. Askew just signed a contract extension and negotiations should be going on with Greg White, Jovan Haye, Phillip Buchanon, Earnest Graham and Jeff Garcia.
Some of those guys probably deserve a new contract more than others. But it is hard to judge when you don't know how much money the players are asking for and what the Bucs are offering. And as long as they are still in negotiations it doesn't really matter. You just have to trust that they will work things out and have a little patience.
I will say this though, people are making too big a deal about Graham not being at OTAs and Garcia needs to shut up and let his agent do his job.
I've tried to look back in some news archives to see if anything has been written about Graham and OTAs in the past two years. I didn't find his name mentioned once. Guess he wasn't that important until now. But I have seen mentioned a couple of times that him missing OTAs are far from something new. Even Bruce Allen has said that he is working out on his own and they expect to see him when the mandatory workouts start. Graham hasn't said anything about being unhappy about his contract. In fact the last time he was asked, about a month ago, he didn't seem too worried about it. People have just been assuming that he is holding out without facts to support it.
It is a pretty obvious conclusion to draw though and Graham could have helped his situation a lot by explaining exactly what is going on. But his agent is no other than Drew Rosenhaus who hasn't been affraid to ask his players to hold out in the past. It seems to be a strategy that he thinks is effective. So even though Graham might not be doing anything differently than he would have if he had a new big contract, Rosenhaus doesn't mind that it looks like a hold out. I'm not a big fan of young players not showing up for OTAs whatever the reason might be. Especially not when it is someone fighting for a job as a starter. He has got some tough competition this year and is only making it harder for himself to keep his job. But I'm not going to get too worried about his contract situation before he starts staying away from mandatory workouts.
The one guy I'm really having a problem with is Jeff Garcia. He is supposed to be one of the most experienced guys and the leader of the offense but right now he isn't acting like it. As I mentioned before I don't know what he is asking for or what the Bucs want to give him so I can't choose a side based on what I think he is worth. But I don't like the way he is dealing with the situation. Just like teams sometimes ask players to take a pay cut Jeff has every right to ask for a new contract. But you don't see managers going to the media complaining about a player that doesn't want to take the cut. Taking it to the public has never helped anybody.
Interesting quote by Phillip Buchanon in a pewterreport.com article yesterday: "Personally for me, if I was younger I would speak out," said Buchanon.
"Now I'm more mature, and now I'm just one of those guys that feels
that things will work out [with a new contract]. If it doesn't work
out, well, it's a business. Sometimes things work out for the best and
sometimes they don't."
It wasn't an attack on Jeff but maybe he should be listening. Even B.J. Askew who is even younger seems to have figured it out and he has already got his extension. What makes it worse is that there are negotiations going on between his agent and Bruce Allen. It would have been different if there were no talks at all and the Bucs flat out refused to give him a new contract. Now Jeff is complaining repeatedly simply because things aren't moving fast enough. But Bruce has got several other players to look out for and probably a lot of other things to spend his time on as well. I'm sure that Jeff's behaviour doesn't exactly make him Bruce's number one priority. Camp is still over a month away so there is absolutely no rush to get it done. If he is going to let that bother him mentally already that only tells me one thing. Nothing is more important to Jeff than making money. Not the kind of behaviour I like to see from a veteran starting quarterback.
I think it is way to early to be concerned with all the negotiating going on. You have some valid points,but it's all just a lot of speculation right now. It's always good to read about the Bucs, well done.
AnitaDK
Well the fact that the Bucs have brought back Brian Griese at this juncture tells me all that I need to know. And the fact that they're not yet prepared to up Graham's contract leads me to believe that they just want to do things on the cheap.
Gruden and Allen for their part as about wily a pair as one could ever wish to be around. They rarely take the blame for the mistakes made when it comes to personnel decisions made by themselves. And are quick to apportion it elsewhere.
Offensively this team is just one step away from flushing themselves down a lavatory once again. Other than Garcia and Galloway there's very little on the team that'd lead you to believe that they can be really sucessfulon the offensive side of the ball. And with the return of an aging Warrick Dunn it can only mean doom and gloom for Earnest Graham at this juncture.
And within their own division one can already see that several of the divisional rivals will have improved immensely. So it augurs well for the upcoming season for them. As for the Bucs they've yet to really put together two back to back years of consistent improvement under Gruden's tenure. So it'd suggest that in all probability that they'll regress this upcoming season.
Great Post, Top Hater I see you doing your job homie, you've expressed your hatred for the Bucs numerous times and thats fair, but I completely disagree with the Bucs not getting better on offense this offseason, and in fact every other team in the southern division didn't get over powering better this offseason. You let your hate guide your post and it's cool. you do state some valid points in there some time but much like areo said of negotiations, your post is speculation, Dunn hasn't lost a step, He put up big numbers on a lousy Falcons team where he was the feature back, now he doesn't have quite a load, So if anything the Bucs upgraded on offense at RB,CB,DL,LB,TE and even WR, actually do some research homie, Bucs faired well with what they had for offense last season, if not for the settled FGs, it would have looked greater, the pieces they aquired will help punch the goaline Fo SHo, what you are right about is the inconsitant seasons though, which I believe will also be shot DOWN after 08-09...stay tuned, make ya a believer!!
Rainman863
I've no doubt that you're loyal to the Bucs. But what's apparently clear that many Bucs' fans aren't always prepared to face reality when it stares 'em in the face. What have I stated that's not factual ?
And you believe that they've upgraded their receiving corp ? I suppose that's why Clayton still runs around like a headless chicken ?
Come up with something analytical rather than believing that what Gruden says is gospel.
I live within earshot of the Bucs' Ray J Stadium and I hear the likes of Silio , Beckles and Diaz opine as to the deficiencies and assets of the team. But in all honesty have they put together two consistent years of back to back progress under Gruden's tenure ?
If you can rebuff that then we can debate this topic further that's if you're up to it ?.
Polk Co. area code I see ?
Jon pay the man rather than have an unhappy qb.
rampant' aka tophatal ......
Last edited by rampantfanatic on May 22nd at 4:22 PM.
tophater becasue you live within miles of ray jay doesnt make y ou an expert on the bucs...garcia had one of the top ratings in the nfc, the only thing i agree with you is that clayton runs around like a headless chicken...but what you also must understand is that the bucs have been undergoin a rebuilding phase since gruden won the SB...weve have layed a strong foundation in a young O line that looks better every year. we picked up J Johnson which i beleave can become our franchise QB within 2 - 3 season. We are rebuilding our D line and our secondary to be that of the #### and sapp days. if we were not stripped of a starting Qb in the 06 season rather then crapkowski then i would without a doubt say that season would not have been a 4-12...the only problem we have at the moment is making a playoff win which i feel will change this year!!!! i agree that allen is a cheap #### but gruden is not to blame for bruce's tight wallet!!!
djbuc127
I've never purported to being an expert on the Bucs. But I do listen intently with regard to what's going on within the Bucs' organization.
And also one has to consider what the talking heads on the radio'll always have to say. From Silio to Beckles and Diaz to Steve Dumick.
All of those are in a unique position to let us know and at the same be objective. Again that's something that some Bucs' fan aren't keen to acknowledge.
What I do find intriguing that you can't find a Bucs' fan who can be object with regard to this team. They drink the damn Kool-Aid concerning the franchise and believe whatever Gruden says is gospel. His picks in the draft over the last few years have been more hit than miss. And even you've got to admit that ?
The hype within the geater Tampa Bay area is primarily about the Bucs. But now with the Rays on the rise it's good to see finally that they're beginning to get the acclaim that they deserve. Hopefully they can maintain that consistency. 'cause God knows the days of Naimoli are long gone !
And the Bucs' management are atr fault from the top starting with Bruce Allen and Gruden. If they can't analyze and comprehend the cap then it shows that they not overly sure as to what they're doing. This isn't a jigsaw puzzle .
Please tell me that you are kidding and you don't form your oppinions based on what the WDAE guys say. They aren't reporters, they are radio hosts. There is a big differense there. They don't spend time around the team on a daily basis and talk to the players in the locker room. And they don't have to be objective at all cause radio is all about strong oppinions. I'm sure Duemig doesn't even always believe what he is saying 100% but it says it anyway to get people riled up, and unfortunately it works. That is the one thing that can't be denied about his show, he knows how to attrackt listeners and get them to call in. Duemig has a little bit better acces to the team than the other guys because he hosts a couple of player shows but being friends with a handfull of guys on the team does not mean that you know eerything that is going on in the locker room. Sileo, Diaz and Beckles have no idea what is going on. The last two only care about women and food anyway. The ones that are truly in a unique position to give us objective information about the Bucs are the beat writers. Roy Cummings' worst article has more substance and facts than you will ever hear on wdae. They are the ones that actually talk to their sources on the team and around the league on a daily basis and have to be as objective as possible. Although the newspapers definitely have their flaws as well.
Back on topic.
#1 you need to seperate Bruce Allen and Jon Gruden. They are not the same person and they do not make all decisions together. If Jon were in charge we would have picked up an offensive player in the first round of the draft. And Kiffen would probably have left town a long time ago. Fact is that when it comes to making decisions about the defense Kiffen has a lot more to say about it than Gruden. Of course Gruden has a lot of influence on what happens with the team but he has to in order to function as the head coach. But it is Bruce that has the final say and it has happened several times that Gruden didn't get what he wanted. As far as being able to comprehend the cap Bruce Allen is widely known as one of the greatest cap wizzards in the league. What he has done the past several years to get the Bucs out of the cap hell that McKay created has been pretty impressive.
It has had the side effect though that Bruce has probably become a little more conservative with the money that he used to. He saw how cap trouble handcuffed the team and limited his abillity to bring in the players they wanted and he is not about to go back to that situation again. But just wait and see, I'm sure that all the players who are currently negotiating with Bruce will get their contracts eventually. There is plenty of time to get it done.
As to wether or not they improved the team in the offseason I definitely think that they did. They didn't lose anybody important and brought in some interesting new guys. They upgraded the o-line with Zuttah and Faine, WR a little bit with Bryant and Jackson, TE with Troupe, RB with Dunn, DB with Wilson and Talib and d-line with Moore. I'm probably even forgetting a name or two here. I will agree though that none of those individually is a major upgrade but altogether I think we strengthened some of the weakest positions on the team and got some depth. The one thing I would have liked to see was another good WR but there weren't a whole lot of talent availible. And apparently Gruden still has a lot more faith in his receivers than most people.
The Bucs have been extremely inconsistent the past 6 years but if you take a look around the league you will find inconsistency with most teams. Things change a lot from year to year. Even though I like this team a lot and the direction they are headed in I'm not ready to say that they will win the south again. The schedule looks to be a bit tougher this year that last season and it really only takes a couple of extra games against tough compepition to change the season. The team should be capable of winning the division again and a game or two in the playoffs but it is still a young team on most positions and with a little bit of bad luck or a few injuries it wouldn't take a whole lot to bring them down to a 8-8 record or less. Although the overall depth of the team is pretty strong.
AnitaDK It'd be completely asinine to just base one's opinions on just what's being said in the radio or by any other media. But they do give a wide variety of opinions.
However when it comes to the Bucs it's as I've alluded to before too man of the fans aren't able to be onjective when it comes to the team. They're not able to maintain a level pof consistency one would expect of a team of that stature.
And when you say that Gruden and Allen are two separate entities offcourse that's a given ! But at the same much of the personnel input and decisions are directly by them. And one has to admit that a great of their decisions roster wise have been more hits than misses.
They had the chance to obtain Stephen Jackson when he was available via the draft and instead they went elswhere via Williams. Not one of their brighter moments and one can see that Clayton has become gunshy as a receiver.
And as to Gruden and his persona he's never been one to step up to the plate and accept responsibiity as to the team's poor play when instigating their schemes.The excuses have mundane and irksome. But yet the fans tend to see it as if there's nothing wrong. Either one deals in reality or just accepts futility as a way of life.
cont'd........
Last edited by rampantfanatic on May 23rd at 3:13 AM.
.....cont'd A Superbowl win and since then it's been a level of inconsistency that the fans deem acceptable. If they're to compete with the elite of the NFC then they've got to be better than that wouldn't you agree ?
However it'd appear that the fans are prepared to accept what Gruden gives to 'em as gospel. If you are prepared to accept futitlity as an excuse then so be it. But when it becomes repetitive then when will the fans say enough is enough ?
Is that what a fan wants from their team ?
Chimin' out stay safe !
Anita said it all, exactly how I feel about our additions, and the Gruden/Allen. Top Hater homie you just snaked your way back to the same non sense. Again only thing I agree with is the inconsistancies. I'd rather have Caddy than Jackson, if it wasn't for the injury (which could happen to anyone, even Jackson) Caddy has shown he can be our lead back. Most Bucs fans would agree, and about Clayton, well he had a standout rookie season, he has dropped some passes, our team went through a time where there wasn't anyone throwing worth a damn to even get him the ball or any other reciever on our squad...There more to factor in other than he was a bust. You seem to put Garcia up pretty high, and he has been one of the greater to throw at RJ, but He is fragile and while his TD-INT ratio is great, his TD numbers where below satisfactory, it is to my knowledge he is to make 15 mill for 2 season, I think this is good money for what his stats say, maybe throw him some bonuses for milestones, but other than that he needs to be more aggresive on numbers and find targets more frequently before he starts throwing out demands as if he's Peyton Manning. If anyone is to get paid it should defintley be E. Graham. Bucs will undoubtly be better this season and I'm not Bias I calls em how I see it, I've done my research, countless interviews, highlights, combines of our draft, every article, anything Bucs...I'm like Johnny 5 on the Bucs, more info!!
Guys all that glitters is not gold. And the Buc haven't been that way in a while. As for me being a Rams' fan. I think not !
Having moved here from the UK some 15 years ago I aligned myself with Pats. Not necessarily through choice but the insidious fins' fans at the time were a pain in the #### with their racist remarks addressed not only at the ppposing team but to many of the opposing fans in the crowd.
Something that I for one don't think ought to be tolerated at a venue where there are kids present with their families.
rampant' aka tophatal .............
Last edited by rampantfanatic on May 23rd at 8:51 AM.
Hi everybody,
I'm a 22 year old Danish college student, who loves to watch, play and talk about sports. I've adopted Tampa as my US sports city and have been a big fan of the Rays, Bucs, Lightning and USF Bulls for about 4-6 years and those are mainly the teams that I will be writing about here. Thanks for stopping by ;)
While the Buccaneers are already working hard to get ready for the next season in OTAs, the talk of the town has centered more about what is going on in the front office. B.J. Askew just signed a contract extension and negotiations should be going on with Greg White, Jovan Haye, Phillip Buchanon, Earnest Graham and Jeff Garcia.
I've tried to look back in some news archives to see if anything has been written about Graham and OTAs in the past two years. I didn't find his name mentioned once. Guess he wasn't that important until now. But I have seen mentioned a couple of times that him missing OTAs are far from something new. Even Bruce Allen has said that he is working out on his own and they expect to see him when the mandatory workouts start. Graham hasn't said anything about being unhappy about his contract. In fact the last time he was asked, about a month ago, he didn't seem too worried about it. People have just been assuming that he is holding out without facts to support it.
The one guy I'm really having a problem with is Jeff Garcia. He is supposed to be one of the most experienced guys and the leader of the offense but right now he isn't acting like it. As I mentioned before I don't know what he is asking for or what the Bucs want to give him so I can't choose a side based on what I think he is worth. But I don't like the way he is dealing with the situation. Just like teams sometimes ask players to take a pay cut Jeff has every right to ask for a new contract. But you don't see managers going to the media complaining about a player that doesn't want to take the cut. Taking it to the public has never helped anybody.
