Sterling Marlin may not be without a Nextel Cup ride for long. Late Tuesday a team source at Morgan-McClure Racing which currently fields the no. 4 Chevy with veteran Ward Burton said that officials there are in discussions with Marlin for a possible second team. Marlin scored six of his ten career wins at Morgan-McClure while driving the No. 4 from 1994-1997.
Sterling wants to keep driving some. He just likes driving. The money is good. But he doesn't need it.
More than one driver has stayed out there too long. Richard Petty did. Darrell Waltrip did. More recently, Kenny Schrader, Kenny Wallace, Ward Burton and Ricky Rudd are.
I have a lot more respect for people like Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin and Terry Labonte who know when to say when. Bill Elliott is in a class by himself. He has proven to have an uncanny ability to drive anyone's car and help them out. See his recent renaissance in the Wood Brothers/JTG Racing car.
If Sterling goes to MMM, I'll give him a chance to pull off a miracle this year before giving up on him.
I do not like the way things at Ginn went down. However, all you had to do was look at Ginn's business record to know that he might do something like what he did.
Given Ginn may merge with DEI, might MMM merge with Haas? Burton plus Marlin = two car team + Haas = four car team (franchise for 2009)?
Wouldn't it be sweet to see Sterling back in the 4 with Kodak on the side? Damn, I'm starting to dream again already.
And oh yeah, wasn't Ward going to pay Sterling back or something? How might this work out?
One more thought. 1997? Ten years have gone by already?
Great news for Sterling. How long is too long? How old is too old?
The Ginn-DEI shakeup is kicking silly season into high gear. I just did a post about how Ginn-DEI are going to manage to deal with having to go from six teams and eight drivers down to four.
However, in one of my other blogs I broke it down this way. It's real easy. DEI has two drivers and Ginn has two drivers, although one is a shared deal.
At this point, given the Ginn news, I am going to break it down a little differently regarding the numbers for 08. Ginn can sell the 13 to DEI so they can use the points for Menard this year if the merger gets done by Indy. If it does, DEI takes the 13 owner points keeps the 15 on the car and the 13 would go back to NASCAR. If it does not, DEI can put Menard in the 8 for 08 for the owner points (bargaining chip). Next year DEI/Ginn runs the 1, 01, 14 and 15 (short life for the supersticious 13). DEI will sell the 8 to Hendrick.
Threee sponsors are Bass Pro Shops, Menard's and U.S. ARMY. The fourth is still likely Bud in my opinion given the existing relationship they have with DEI. Bud 14. If Bud goes somewhere else, WM is a potential sponsor for 1/2 of the 14.
Hendrick will also be able to sell the 5 to someone for the points. Anyone adding a team next year is a likely buyer of that number. Potential obvious Team Chevy suitors are Furniture Row, MMM and RCR.
Assuming Bud stays on the 8, Sterling walks away with a potential part time sponsor for the part time ride he wants next year at either Furniture Row or MMM in WM.
Last edited by 14Falcons on July 18th at 11:34 AM.
I don't think Hendrick is going to be selling the points from the 5. This wouldn't be the first time NASCAR allowed teams to change numbers without moving owners points around. I'm sure DEI will keep the owners points from the 8 and HMS will keep the owners points from the 5 for Junior, whatever number ends up on his hood.
The last high-profile team to totally change its number was when Roush changed the 97 to 26 for McMurray. He didn't lose the owners points for the car.
I think DEI will have more owner points than it needs at the end of the year. They will sell the 8 to Hendrick for Junior.
Then, Hendrick will have more owner points then he needs. Even though the 5 was Ricky's number, I think Rick sells it. He will want to keep all the other numbers as they are for marketing reasons with the drivers. Money will rule over sentimentality in this case.
Hmmm. A 4 and a 5 would look real good at MMM. That has to be worth something. Sterling might wind up with the WM 5.
Last edited by 14Falcons on July 18th at 11:40 AM.
That doesn't make ANY sense. Hendrick has no need for the points under any scenario, so why wouldn't DEI sell the points themselves (like to MWR, or the RCR if they start a fourth team as rumored)? Hendrick just wants to get assigned the number 8.
EDIT: I'm also getting the impression that no matter what else happens Mark Martin and Aric Almirola will be driving the 01 and Regan Smith in the 14 will be Ginn-owned teams, maybe partnered with DEI but NOT owned by them. Why go through all of this nonsense (if you're Jay Frye) with firing drivers and hiring new ones if it's all going to end up under the DEI umbrella?
Last edited by JayJayDean on July 18th at 11:51 AM.
OMG Falcons - I know you are excited. I can't even comment on the business aspect of this post because I really have no clue, but it seems that with let's see 42/43 cars on the grid, and each team can have 4 cars, it will be a 10.5 team "franchise" by 2009??!!
I remember years ago I was at 'Dega and every time that bright yellow #4 Kodak car came roaring by it had this "high pitch" sound - unlike any other car. I think I kept watching his car more than anybody else just because of that. :)
"42/43 cars on the grid, and each team can have 4 cars, it will be a 10.5 team "franchise" by 2009??!!"
Actually this exact scenario is why I am POSITIVE that the "franchise" concept will never take root in NASCAR. This is a perfect example of (1) survival of the fittest and (2) the market correcting itself.
Given NASCAR has allowed teams to be sold and the numbers to go with them, they will contine to do this. Therefore every team will sell teams that have owner points for the points.
The 8 has marketing value (goodwill). Therefore DEI is not going to give it away. Jr. wants it. He will pay for it. DEI will take the money.
The Mountain Dew 8. Jr. will look awesome in those Mountain Dew commercials. X-treme-ly awesome.
You go through this reorganization because you have to anyway and it shows your potential partner "good faith."
I never thought my MBA would enhance my enjoyment of NASCAR. What an unexpected plus.
It will be 11 four-team-franchises and a 44 car grid. I can't wait. This aughta be good.
I think that high pitched sound in Sterling's 4 car was one of those things NASCAR probably told MMM not to bring back. I have yet to hear what that was. right now I don't care either. The 1994 win is one of my all time favorite sport's memories. It is right up there with Aaron's 715, Sid Bream's slide and Peerless Price's catches.
Yeah, DEI will sell the NUMBER 8, but there are two separate issues here, the NUMBER and the OWNERS POINTS. DEI need not sell the owners points to, ahem, free the eight, so why would they?
The 8 doesn't have any more value to Hendrick WITH the owners points than without.
Because the owner points are purchaseable, they have a trade value. After Hendrick gets the 8 owner points, he can sell the 5 owner points. Think it through jj.
When DEI can surely maximize their value by selling the 8 to Hendrick and the points to someone else, what POSSIBLE reason would they have to sell both to Hendrick? Think THAT through.
Hendrick would be perfectly happy to put Junior in the Mountain Dew 5 car, but he's only looking to buy the number because Junior said he'd like to keep it. There is ZERO value in Hendrick purchasing the points unless they can turn a profit on them, and again, why wouldn't DEI just sell them directly to the team willing to pay more for them?
How did Morgan-McClure keep the #4 after trading points with the #09 team, then? The points go to the CAR (or team), not the NUMBER.
Remember when Mikey bought Derrike Cope's ride for the 600 (I think it was)? He had the 55 on his hood in the race, but the points went to the 74 team. The numbers aren't THAT tied into the owners points.
Phoenix Racing bought the MMM team (theoretically)before the race. That let Phoenix Racing combine the points the 09 gained at Daytona with Phoenix Racing with the points the 4 gained at California with MMM. It moved the Phoenix Racing No. 4 team up to 38th in owner points and could have helped them get in the race. Phoenix Racing had not planned to run the 09 at Las Vegas anyway so it did not hurt them any.
Then MMM bought the team back (theoretically) after the race. MMM wound up with all the points the 4 and the 09 had at that point. Phoenix Racing did not care about that because it was going to fall way behind in the owner points situation anyway and it had received financial consideration for its points from Daytona.
Mikey "bought the ride", not the team. Essentially Mike paid enough to convince the owner to change drivers. Darrell did the same thing with Carl Long before that.
There never was a second transaction, as far as points were concerned. The 09 team "left" Las Vegas with 29 points and two qualifying attempts, both by the 4 team, who "qualified" 55th at Daytona (1 point) and 45th at Fontana (28 points). The 09 team then went to Talladega and Daytona (for the 400) and missed both shows (which still gets owners points) and now have 55 points and 4 qualifying attempts.
The 4 team has 18 qualifying attempts, because it has the 09's Daytona 500 attempt, plus the 17 starting at Vegas until now. They kept the 09s points (160) from the 500, then have accumulated all their points as the 4 team since then.
Technically, James Finch is listed as the owner of the 4 team still (though he actually owns the 09) and Larry McClure is listed as the owner of the 09 (though he actually owns the 4. There wasn't a second transaction and I'm sure NASCAR will switch the owners and numbers back at the end of the year, but the 4 team will keep its points and the 09 will do the same.
EDIT: "Mikey "bought the ride", not the team."
Same thing here, just a little bit different.
Last edited by JayJayDean on July 18th at 3:52 PM.
Michael Waltrip's car was 36th in owner points headed into the 600. His car qualified 47th, and as a GOGH-car that was the first race he was due to miss.
The #74 car owned by Raynard McGlynn was the slowest GOGH-car to make the show, qualifying 39th, but his car was a part-time entry AND a Dodge, which MWR was racing while waiting to become a Toyota team in '07.
Essentially NAPA wrote McGlynn a nice check and Mikey got to put NAPA AND the 55 on the car as if it was his own, but the points he received for finishing 41st went to McGlynn's #74 team, while MWR (the 55) got the 22 owners points for qualifying 47th.
Falcon, Who said that Kenny Schrader,Wallace,Ward Burton and Ricky Rudd have stayed too long ? Sterling or wrighter ? We all know how much Schrader loves to race anything with a motor. lol
That's right. Napa sponsored the car and the as the driver for Napa, Mikey got to drive because he brought cash. Buying a seat like that is typical in open wheel rides. But that is not buying the team and did not impact owner points and has no real bearing on this conversation.
That is a good article on franchising. But I am finding some momentum going that way. While I can't see why NASCAR would give up control, I can see how they could make a ton of cash. The author is right that the Champ Car owners did screw up that series royally.
I really struggle with quotes in my posts. Sometimes I cut and paste a lot and then people think I wrote it. Most recently I have been putting quotes in italics and leaving my writings unitalicized. The opinions about other drivers expressed in this article are mine.
I really struggle with quotes in my posts. Sometimes I cut and paste a lot and then people think I wrote it. Most recently I have been putting quotes in italics and my writings unitalicized. The opinions about other drivers expressed in this article are mine.
It *is* relevant, though, in that Mikey drove a car with 55 on the hood, but the owner points went to the 74 team. The owner points aren't literally for the number on the car, they are for the team, so DEI could sell the 8 separate from the points, see?
DEI or HMS does not own any numbers to speak of. All of the numbers belong to Nascar. I am sure there will be money under the table if such a number trade were to take place but the reality is Nascar is the governing body. No team is guaranteed the same number from one year to the next if Nascar got a wild hair and lowered the boom on all the teams. If Nascar wanted to they could be a marketing nightmare to the teams making them change their numbers every year. As far as MW buying a ride last year when he did not make the field I think Nascar made some sort of rule after he did that. I remember hearing and reading about that after the deal I also remember Mikey saying that it happens all the time but since it was a high profile team that did it now it is wrong.
While that last comment didn't tell us anything we didn't already know, it did get me to wondering what happened when Dale Earnhardt was killed and RCR changed the car number to 29. The 29 car actually shows 36 starts for that season, so RCR didn't have to "shut down" the 3 team and start over, from an owners points-POV.
Just another example of NASCAR not tying the owners points to the number on the hood so literally.
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All Mikey did was buy a seat and the owner kept the owner points. It had nothing to do with a transfer of owner points. So it is not relevant.
DEI can not sell a number. NASCAR owns the number.
DEI can sell a race team and the number usually is transferred with the team. Hendrick will want the points because it lets him sell the five and gives him more #### for his buck. Both DEI and Hendrick will sell teams and the numbers will go with them because NASCAR will let them do that so why wouldn't they? It's to both of their advantages.
NASCAR was not about to not work with Childress after the death of Earnhardt. Get real.
But for the record, NASCAR currently owns the 3 not Childress. Officially, NASCAR simply granted a request to change a number.
Nice limerick.
Last edited by 14Falcons on July 19th at 10:09 AM.
I believe you are correct in saying that NASCAR owns all the numbers. That is why they can not be sold.
But teams can be sold and usually NASCAR allows the number to be transferred to the new team. Therefore, NASCAR has allowed a market to be created for the numbers and NASCAR is allowing it to continue. Out of fairness and for legal reasons, they have established precedent and probably have to continue as they have in the past from the point of view of potential liability.
Odd. Here is the entire article. I'm sure ESPN.com won't mind since it is a couple of weeks old.
If Hendrick agrees to buy No. 8 from DEI, NASCAR unlikely to balk
LOUDON, N.H. -- There is nothing keeping Hendrick Motorsports from buying the No. 8 from Dale Earnhardt Inc. as long as NASCAR approves the transfer of the number.
While NASCAR owns all numbers and issues them to organizations on an annual basis, teams sell numbers all the time.
NASCAR spokesman Ramsey Poston said it is unlikely the governing body would prevent such a transfer, adding the financial terms are not a concern.
Dale Earnhardt Jr. made it clear when announcing a five-year deal to begin driving for HMS in 2008 that he would like to keep the No. 8 that has been his trademark since he got into the Nextel Cup Series in 2000.
DEI officials said they would be willing to consider a transaction once a formal proposal is made.
"I believe that if Rick Hendrick and DEI made a deal for that number or if Junior made a deal for the number with DEI that it would be consistent with their practice to say, 'Yes, that's OK,' " Roush Fenway president Geoff Smith said before the start of Sunday's race at New Hampshire International Speedway.
"It would be very inconsistent for them to say it's not OK for those two guys to make that trade."
What makes this number transaction different from most is the potential monetary value because it is directly linked to NASCAR's most popular driver. "There have been a lot of cash considerations, very nominal kind of things," Smith said. "Like we give you use
of an engine and $25,000. There hasn't been a dollar exchange of any consequence, except maybe this one."
For example, Penske Racing paid less than $10,000 to acquire the No. 2. Dodge Motorsports gave the Pontiac team of Melling Racing Dodge support in exchange for the No. 9 when Bill Elliott began racing for Evernham Motorsports in 2000.
Kevin Harvick gave Mark Martin the No. 6 in the Truck Series so Martin could have the same number he had with Roush Fenway Racing in the Cup series.
"I don't remember what Kevin got. Oh, yeah. We let him win the Busch Series last year," Smith said with a laugh.
"NASCAR owns the numbers, but in practice if the two owners agree that one doesn't need the number anymore and that he'd like the other one to have it NASCAR has accommodated that request every single time."
Moody's now saying DEI is buying the points from the #13. If Ginn used Visser to bump the price up for Teresa that's a pretty shrewd move.
EDIT: The LATEST...
DEI buys the 01 and the 14, transfers the 14 points to the 15. Martin, Truex, Junior, and Menard (now locked in, still in the 15) will be driving at the Brickyard.
Looks like the 13 points are going to the 78, who will also be locked in. Right now the 35th spot in points is 226 points ahead of 36th, so these teams will likely be locked in for a while.
I'll give NASCAR one thing, I've never been so interested in owners points until the top-35 rule made them a commodity.
Last edited by JayJayDean on July 24th at 3:47 PM.
So is Smith a go or go home car now? They must have paid Waste Management off for that, or given them free sponsorship for additional races or something.
I'll have to go check this all out on other sites. This is crazy. But apparently I have hit it again saying the merger would be announced today. That's pretty cool.
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